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Pia Whitmartlet's avatar

We face this battle constantly and I have to say I find it very irritating. The victor is usually the language which everyone speaks best which can either be English or Italian, but to get to that conclusion takes a few skirmishes. We live half the year in Italy, I lived a decade in Rome; we are getting to the point that we speak well enough to be able to tell funny anecdotes in Italian - which is a pretty high level. We are way beyond the 1066 stage of restaurant ordering.

Most of the time we go into a bar it is evident that we speak easily well enough to order and there is a queue so all passes easily, but in restaurants we face the battle of the languages. I will refuse to back down and continue to speak Italian, Gianni (my English-Irish partner- that's the pseudonym we use for him Gianni Strainer - Jonny Foreigner) who is partly deaf and therefore doesn't speak Italian as well as quickly, will give way and let them speak English to us.

I think it is arrogant to come to a foreign country and expect others to speak English, without making an effort to speak the language. Having made the effort for decades I think is is rude to have the waiting staff refuse to speak Italian to us- we are clearly not struggling to communicate. Gianni on the other hand thinks it is rude to refuse to give the waiting staff the chance to practice their English.

My view is, firmly, that in a foreign country you make the effort for pleasantries at the very least - please, thank you, good morning, good bye, and if you speak the language then speak it and be allowed to speak it with imperfections .

However, two anecdotes. Once we were in Ravello in one of those super expensive ceramic shops. We had only just arrived and were staying in Villa Cimbrone- where Greta Garbo eloped to when she married- ie expensive. I started speaking Italian but tbh gave up as the owner, clued to our side, kept talking in English and Gianni indulged him. We said we would be back as we had only just arrived. As we left he pretended to speak to his collegue but went on a tirade about how rich people came to his shop and didn't even buy a wine stopper. It was highly offensive. I was steaming angry but Gianni stopped me saying something there and then.

The next day Gianni returned and the guy asked where I was as I had been interested in some platters. Gianni then informed him that I was offended, as I spoke perfectly good Italian and had understood every word of his abuse. The owner was mortified. MORTIFIED. He couldn't apologise enough and loaded Gianni with free stuff to reflect his embarrassment. Lesson - don't assume the English speaking people only speak English. I speak English, French and Italian. My kids- Brits- speak English, Italian, French, Spanish and Swedish, three of those fluently.

Second anecdote... none of the above applies in social gatherings. I used to be married to a Swede. Every time we went to Sweden, notwithstanding that every one spoke fluent English and I didn't speak a word , the conversations were in Swedish. For me this is plain rude.

The ramifications continue to this day. In the summer my daughter's plus one was isolated as he didn't speak Swedish and all the conversations were in Swedish. He's Belgium, but fluent in English, he only needed them to meet him half way. Presently the kiddies are with their plus ones (non Swede speakers) having Christmas with the whole Swedish family in English speaking South Africa. The biggest dread for my kids and their plushness is how to stop the Swedish family speaking Swedish and isolating their loved ones, when all the Swedes are fluent in English.

So for me;

When in Rome, speak Italian

When in mixed language company, speak the common language.

At the end of the day, language is about communication and good manner is about not making other people feel uncomfortable.

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Ken Anderson's avatar

Great post, and a topic near and dear to my heart as a language nerd living in Portugal. I’ve been living in Portugal for over three years and I’m currently studying level B2 Portuguese although I would say my real-world speaking and understanding ability is probably at high B1.

My thoughts on the matter pretty much align with all of what you said. I’m never upset when someone speaks to me in English but I’m always curious about when and why people switch to English when I start out in Portuguese.

I would first add that as Portuguese has improved, the frequency of people speaking to me in English has steadily declined. And in general, I think people in Portugal are used to English speaking foreigners who have learned barely enough to eke out an A2 certificate and can’t really get much beyond initial greetings and make major errors, like my friend who ordered “chão gelado” to drink, or another one who ordered “água sem joelho”. At that point most Portuguese people are going to switch to English for obvious reasons.

Another thing that happens is that at least for me, I still have a fair amount of difficulty understanding spoken Portuguese in some situations, such as if there is a noisy background. In many cases a Portuguese person will switch to English when they sense I’m having difficulty and if it’s a service encounter I’m usually happy to do so. When I see a doctor who speaks English we usually speak English because it’s easier, although in simpler medical situations I’m fine speaking Portuguese.

One final thought, in my experience beginning language learners in general and even many language teachers don’t focus enough on pronunciation and intonation. Assuming you have a decent vocabulary, I think that bad pronunciation will create more problems in being understood than many types of grammar mistakes.

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