I absolutely loved your newsletter on living in a foreign country. My mother came to America after WWII from Italy. I have visited Italy 4 times but only once to Roseto Valfortore, Italy for 1 day. Thank you for giving me more information. I look forward to more.
This is a great post and you really hit the most important factors to consider. Language learning is key if you want to enjoy living in a (non-English speaking) country, but I'm surprised by how many people don't do it. I know people in France who have been living here 30 years and can barely make a bakery purchase - most of them live in the parts of France that have a lot of other English speaking expats. Most surprising to me was the American man I met on the Greek island of Hydra (population 2,000) who had been living there 16 years without learning any Greek and with no interest in doing so... And he didn't even have a partner.
You do a great job of pointing out the need for flexibility and adaptation. The bureaucracy struggles are real, especially in France and Italy. My French is fluent, but I have still cried at least three different times in the last year over seemingly impossible barriers in the way of my carte vitale and titre de sejour.
Thanks for the affirmation, Jean! I agree that it is amazingly self-limiting to move to a country and refuse to learn the language. I don't like the mindset that it suggests either.
I'm sorry that it's true that bureaucracy will make you cry—see my post about registering my car; oh boy, did I cry.
Thanks for the informative post! Glad to have discovered you via @davidleibovitz. As a Canadian eyeing France in some way, whether part-time 90 days on/off or more permanent I agree it’s crucial to take stock of these questions and the realistic challenges that are bound to be faced. That said, I remain fully on board with a future in France and am focused on improving my French every day.
Glad you liked the essay, Kathy! It’s good to have you here. And it sounds like you have a good attitude with regard to moving. Best of luck with your French future!
My husband and I are in our mid 40s, and hope to one day live abroad (Italy, Spain, or Mexico). In reading through your questions we seem to have a nice balance between the two of us. I’m the Discovery person and he’s the Security person. He probably has better perseverance, which helps me chill out a bit when things get shaky. I am fluent in Spanish, and just about conversational in Italian.
It’s helpful to read articles like this one, as we continue to dream/plan for the future!
Your thoughts about moving to another country are excellent. I moved to Mexico from the US over 20 years ago and have never looked back. I had many years of French in high school and college but I took many classes in Spanish for the reasons you mentioned in your article.
My husband passed away after our divorce and I was fortunate to meet a wonderful partner who lived in Colorado when I did for thirty years but moved to Mexico over eight years ago, where we met. He loves this country as much as I do.
With a good number of expats living in our area, we are blessed with a lifestyle that offers the best of everything. It is close enough to the family for visits to the US and for them to come here. I recommend moving to a new country that works for you and meets your needs. For many reasons, living in the US is not where we want to be. Being retired means enjoying wonderful friends, activities, and the ability to travel extensively. For those who want the new country to be like the US, then moving may not be for them.
Thank you, Helena! You really hit the nail on the head: If you're looking to move to another country that's just like the US, you aren't really looking to move!
This is excellent!!! Spot on for emigration in general. We moved to Mexico over two years ago, and many of these points applies; we have zero regrets, and I am now offering emigration consulting for people wanting to leave the US (especially those who are targeted due to identities), because the decision points and processes are, as you note, much more complicated than most articles suggest and than most Americans expect.
Great explanation of the juxtaposition in the way people from the US are raised, with relatively few people expecting to ever *travel* abroad, much less emigrate.
Loved your point about being a colonial overlord, though I have less sympathy for Europeans who might make this observation (since they pretty much won at being colonial overlords).
Two things I'll add:
1. You can be a Security person (I am) and find your secure routines in another country, but it will take some time and be challenging for a while. We have our groove and we love it!
2. With the exception of specific cities and more diverse liberal pockets, European countries may not be the best place to go if you are not white, especially with the burgeoning fascism you reference. Heavy white majorities, even in major cities, can be very jarring for people who grew up in more diverse settings (for example, I am from NY and I was astonished at how homogeneous central Madrid was recently).
Thank you very much, Elizabeth! I appreciate the points you make. In particular, I want to clarify that I never said that Security people couldn't move abroad (I know many who have), just that they were less likely to enjoy it than Discovery people, which I do think is true. But especially if you find your sense of security diminishing in your home country, then it makes sense to try to build a new and comforting life elsewhere.
Absolutely! The incoming US regime is going to drive a different sort of emigrant; less about seeking adventure and expansion, and more about seeking a sense of peace and safety.
That's pretty hard-core, DJ! I actually lived on an island in Sweden for a while that had one stoplight, and then they replaced it with a roundabout. So you could always move there!
Thank you very much, Alecia! It’s great to hear from another intrepid emigrant (who recognizes that that’s what it takes). Pistoia is a lovely city—but it sounds like you’re living up in the hills nearby?
You’re absolutely right, Chandra. How I wish I could make the rules! But while this is a problem that is nearly universal, there may be better and worse places in terms of openness. Unfortunately, as a white male, I don’t have enough experience to say.
Interesting read! My husband and I just did it in October. We have been planning for about three years. The election was disappointing, but we were coming regardless. We are in France, learning the language, laughing at ourselves daily, and loving it so far!
I tease my husband reminding him that I wanted to move during the Anita Hill hearings!! Starting over is wonderful. We did it twice with US. Everyone should try it at least once.
Great post! I now live in the Algarve of Portugal after living in Ecuador for six years. Your questions are spot on. The Algarve is known for its beautiful beaches. Yet one day I overheard a woman at the table next to mine complaining that she shouldn’t have moved here because “there was so much sand.” I kid you not!
I love Lisbon but I’m not a city girl. I’m all about nature and the ocean.
I grew up speaking Spanish and am multilingual so I’m on my way to being fluent in Portuguese. Mostly a smile is the universal language!
One thing I missed in your post was about pets. Americans view pets as part of our family. In other countries, like Ecuador and Portugal, animals are property and disposable. It’s very difficult to see this. Yet, my dog Sophie is welcomed anywhere we go and is better known in our village than I am!
Hi Alicia! Bem-vinda a Portugal! You're right, it's sometimes puzzling to see people who don't seem to appreciate the thing they chose—which makes me think that maybe they didn't really do their homework.
I didn't write about pets partly because I was limiting the number of questions I wanted to ask, and partly because that is something that, as you say, varies immensely between cultures. I heard a story once about a girl from El Salvador who visited Sweden, and when asked what she thought was the strangest thing about Sweden, she said it was the fact that they let dogs ride in cars.
My experience is that in most parts of Europe (with subtle but noticeable differences), dogs and cats are easily accepted as part of the family. What people seem to struggle with is other animals. Here in Portugal, many people keep birds in tiny cages, which breaks my heart. Me, I have a turtle, and people think I'm bonkers. But she's part of the family for me!
I absolutely loved your newsletter on living in a foreign country. My mother came to America after WWII from Italy. I have visited Italy 4 times but only once to Roseto Valfortore, Italy for 1 day. Thank you for giving me more information. I look forward to more.
Hi Colleen! I hope you will find more things here that speak to you. You are very welcome.
This is a great post and you really hit the most important factors to consider. Language learning is key if you want to enjoy living in a (non-English speaking) country, but I'm surprised by how many people don't do it. I know people in France who have been living here 30 years and can barely make a bakery purchase - most of them live in the parts of France that have a lot of other English speaking expats. Most surprising to me was the American man I met on the Greek island of Hydra (population 2,000) who had been living there 16 years without learning any Greek and with no interest in doing so... And he didn't even have a partner.
You do a great job of pointing out the need for flexibility and adaptation. The bureaucracy struggles are real, especially in France and Italy. My French is fluent, but I have still cried at least three different times in the last year over seemingly impossible barriers in the way of my carte vitale and titre de sejour.
Thanks for the affirmation, Jean! I agree that it is amazingly self-limiting to move to a country and refuse to learn the language. I don't like the mindset that it suggests either.
I'm sorry that it's true that bureaucracy will make you cry—see my post about registering my car; oh boy, did I cry.
Thanks for the informative post! Glad to have discovered you via @davidleibovitz. As a Canadian eyeing France in some way, whether part-time 90 days on/off or more permanent I agree it’s crucial to take stock of these questions and the realistic challenges that are bound to be faced. That said, I remain fully on board with a future in France and am focused on improving my French every day.
Glad you liked the essay, Kathy! It’s good to have you here. And it sounds like you have a good attitude with regard to moving. Best of luck with your French future!
My husband and I are in our mid 40s, and hope to one day live abroad (Italy, Spain, or Mexico). In reading through your questions we seem to have a nice balance between the two of us. I’m the Discovery person and he’s the Security person. He probably has better perseverance, which helps me chill out a bit when things get shaky. I am fluent in Spanish, and just about conversational in Italian.
It’s helpful to read articles like this one, as we continue to dream/plan for the future!
Your thoughts about moving to another country are excellent. I moved to Mexico from the US over 20 years ago and have never looked back. I had many years of French in high school and college but I took many classes in Spanish for the reasons you mentioned in your article.
My husband passed away after our divorce and I was fortunate to meet a wonderful partner who lived in Colorado when I did for thirty years but moved to Mexico over eight years ago, where we met. He loves this country as much as I do.
With a good number of expats living in our area, we are blessed with a lifestyle that offers the best of everything. It is close enough to the family for visits to the US and for them to come here. I recommend moving to a new country that works for you and meets your needs. For many reasons, living in the US is not where we want to be. Being retired means enjoying wonderful friends, activities, and the ability to travel extensively. For those who want the new country to be like the US, then moving may not be for them.
Thank you, Helena! You really hit the nail on the head: If you're looking to move to another country that's just like the US, you aren't really looking to move!
This is excellent!!! Spot on for emigration in general. We moved to Mexico over two years ago, and many of these points applies; we have zero regrets, and I am now offering emigration consulting for people wanting to leave the US (especially those who are targeted due to identities), because the decision points and processes are, as you note, much more complicated than most articles suggest and than most Americans expect.
Great explanation of the juxtaposition in the way people from the US are raised, with relatively few people expecting to ever *travel* abroad, much less emigrate.
Loved your point about being a colonial overlord, though I have less sympathy for Europeans who might make this observation (since they pretty much won at being colonial overlords).
Two things I'll add:
1. You can be a Security person (I am) and find your secure routines in another country, but it will take some time and be challenging for a while. We have our groove and we love it!
2. With the exception of specific cities and more diverse liberal pockets, European countries may not be the best place to go if you are not white, especially with the burgeoning fascism you reference. Heavy white majorities, even in major cities, can be very jarring for people who grew up in more diverse settings (for example, I am from NY and I was astonished at how homogeneous central Madrid was recently).
Thanks for writing this - very well done.
Thank you very much, Elizabeth! I appreciate the points you make. In particular, I want to clarify that I never said that Security people couldn't move abroad (I know many who have), just that they were less likely to enjoy it than Discovery people, which I do think is true. But especially if you find your sense of security diminishing in your home country, then it makes sense to try to build a new and comforting life elsewhere.
Absolutely! The incoming US regime is going to drive a different sort of emigrant; less about seeking adventure and expansion, and more about seeking a sense of peace and safety.
I’m afraid that’s true. Let’s help them out, each in our own way, shall we?
YES! That's exactly my goal. Just wrote about it on Medium (will transfer over here too), that it feels like this is what I'm supposed to be doing. https://medium.com/cultured-network/why-we-fled-the-us-in-2022-and-why-im-glad-we-didn-t-wait-4495f7b29c73?sk=3b1b44c163fa5d828864bc9fdf7c66a8
No. I’m not running from this battle. I will however consider move to an area even more rural than where I live now. We have one stoplight.
I want a place without one stoplight.
That's pretty hard-core, DJ! I actually lived on an island in Sweden for a while that had one stoplight, and then they replaced it with a roundabout. So you could always move there!
You have the best attitude! Thanks for this . Just moving to Pistoia, Italy- in the countryside. Couldn’t be happier. But not for the feint of heart!
Thank you very much, Alecia! It’s great to hear from another intrepid emigrant (who recognizes that that’s what it takes). Pistoia is a lovely city—but it sounds like you’re living up in the hills nearby?
Superb article! As one of those Americans seriously contemplating moving (to France), this is très utile. Merci !
Je vous en prie, Diana! I am very glad you found it helpful!
Excellent & concise & totally accurate!!!
Thanks! I could say the same of your comment. 🤣
Mentally, I’m in Asia.
That sounds nice, Kenny. The problem is, that way you don't get the great food! 😄
Asia has amazing food (as an Asian 😂)
Wifey is Italian.
Both great food culture 😬
Yes, I meant that Asia has great food, but if you're only there mentally, you are only eating it mentally.
Oh yes!! So true 😂
Sorry it’s early here
I would add do you have dark skin cause that’s going to also inform your experience. I don’t make the rules unfortunately.
You’re absolutely right, Chandra. How I wish I could make the rules! But while this is a problem that is nearly universal, there may be better and worse places in terms of openness. Unfortunately, as a white male, I don’t have enough experience to say.
Interesting read! My husband and I just did it in October. We have been planning for about three years. The election was disappointing, but we were coming regardless. We are in France, learning the language, laughing at ourselves daily, and loving it so far!
Cheers!
Sara, it's nice to hear a positive report from someone in the early stages! Bonne chance!
If I was 50 or under, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
I'm not sure that matters as much as you think. I just changed my life radically, and I was over 50. It's gone great for me.
I’m over 70 and husband over 80.
Yes, that's more delicate, for sure.
I tease my husband reminding him that I wanted to move during the Anita Hill hearings!! Starting over is wonderful. We did it twice with US. Everyone should try it at least once.
I totally agree, Bonnie!
Looks Unappetizing
Well then, I'd say it's not for you.
Great post! I now live in the Algarve of Portugal after living in Ecuador for six years. Your questions are spot on. The Algarve is known for its beautiful beaches. Yet one day I overheard a woman at the table next to mine complaining that she shouldn’t have moved here because “there was so much sand.” I kid you not!
I love Lisbon but I’m not a city girl. I’m all about nature and the ocean.
I grew up speaking Spanish and am multilingual so I’m on my way to being fluent in Portuguese. Mostly a smile is the universal language!
One thing I missed in your post was about pets. Americans view pets as part of our family. In other countries, like Ecuador and Portugal, animals are property and disposable. It’s very difficult to see this. Yet, my dog Sophie is welcomed anywhere we go and is better known in our village than I am!
Enjoy Lisbon! I’ll be sharing your post!
Hi Alicia! Bem-vinda a Portugal! You're right, it's sometimes puzzling to see people who don't seem to appreciate the thing they chose—which makes me think that maybe they didn't really do their homework.
I didn't write about pets partly because I was limiting the number of questions I wanted to ask, and partly because that is something that, as you say, varies immensely between cultures. I heard a story once about a girl from El Salvador who visited Sweden, and when asked what she thought was the strangest thing about Sweden, she said it was the fact that they let dogs ride in cars.
My experience is that in most parts of Europe (with subtle but noticeable differences), dogs and cats are easily accepted as part of the family. What people seem to struggle with is other animals. Here in Portugal, many people keep birds in tiny cages, which breaks my heart. Me, I have a turtle, and people think I'm bonkers. But she's part of the family for me!
I hope you’re enjoying Portugal. This month I would’ve been here 4 years. Time just goes so quickly. Thanks for your insights.